Dear Developers, Make the Auction House impenetrable to ADDONS. It is an unfair advantage to anyone else that has profession, has signed up to play your game, and does not have that ADDON to counter the near automatic price reduction process. During MoP, you will lose all those wonderful kiddies you're courting for increased player-revenue. Presently, you are forcing toons like me into the arms of gold sellers - I refuse to be an AH Addon Slave (a.k.a. the human behind the toon) and waste my time learning the intricate (yet powerful) database skills to utilize Auctioneer/Auctionator/Trade Skills Master. I would rather play the game; but need need the economy to do so.
Case Study: Inscription - I had three (3) glyphs for sale. Every 15 minutes an AH Addon slave undercuts by a copper or whatever increment has been programed into the addon. I'm busy playing the game and lose the bid to whoever, rightly so, bids on the lowest price. Did research - now this thread. Tired of competing with an Addon. Didn't our stock market just go thru this madness? I don't care if you're OCD and just sit at the AH all day, that's your loss. Giving you an addon, encouraged by Blizzard, is forcing me into gold seller methods to survive. Now....let's see what the OCD addon-slaves have to say :)
Case Study: Inscription - I had three (3) glyphs for sale. Every 15 minutes an AH Addon slave undercuts by a copper or whatever increment has been programed into the addon. I'm busy playing the game and lose the bid to whoever, rightly so, bids on the lowest price. Did research - now this thread. Tired of competing with an Addon. Didn't our stock market just go thru this madness? I don't care if you're OCD and just sit at the AH all day, that's your loss. Giving you an addon, encouraged by Blizzard, is forcing me into gold seller methods to survive. Now....let's see what the OCD addon-slaves have to say :)
Mondays: TradeSkillMaster Please post all TSM related questions/issues in this perpetual sticky, otherwise your post will be removed. Tuesdays: Goblin Achievements If you made your first 100k, 10th gold cap or anything in between, shout about it in this sticky only. TradeSkillMaster @TSMAddon. The official TSM Addon Twitter! Gold making in World of Warcraft has never been easier with our addon! Your Auction House.
Do you have any comprehension of how an addon works? Going with 'no' here. A rather impressive list of current standard ui abilities were because specific addons were successful.
Some people play the ah quite a lot. Some of them are just a lot better at it than you are, whether effort, skill, or both. Blizzard can't protect you from your lack of effort.
Hmm, was going to say more but the end of your post goes to straight trolling. So simple 'bad idea, no cookie' should be enough.
Some people play the ah quite a lot. Some of them are just a lot better at it than you are, whether effort, skill, or both. Blizzard can't protect you from your lack of effort.
Hmm, was going to say more but the end of your post goes to straight trolling. So simple 'bad idea, no cookie' should be enough.
I have spent less than 10 minutes total over the course of more than a year configuring Auctionator. The default settings are very good and enable you to perform much better than without the addon. I highly recommend installing it. In a free market economy, you are hurting only yourself by refusing advantages.
I have amassed nearly 500K gold over the course of this expansion, and spent close to that sum on vanity items as well. I have not, and will never, buy gold because of the security issues that arise from doing so. I advise you to avoid the practice as well.
As for your concern about glyphs, there are two issues here that are working against you. First, glyphs are one of the slowest moving markets that seem to bring the fiercest competition. Because glyphs move so slowly, a few dedicated sellers can, and often do, dominate the market by constantly ensuring that their product is the cheapest available product. If you haven't already, you can mitigate your risk by selling Darkmoon Cards and Mysterious Fortune Cards.
Secondly, we are at the end of an expansion, which is a notoriously bad time for making money. Trade goods are in very low demand at this point in the expansion cycle, because everything is either on farm or not being run. Prices are depressed further because many sellers have excessive supply that they are trying to move before Mists launches.
I have amassed nearly 500K gold over the course of this expansion, and spent close to that sum on vanity items as well. I have not, and will never, buy gold because of the security issues that arise from doing so. I advise you to avoid the practice as well.
As for your concern about glyphs, there are two issues here that are working against you. First, glyphs are one of the slowest moving markets that seem to bring the fiercest competition. Because glyphs move so slowly, a few dedicated sellers can, and often do, dominate the market by constantly ensuring that their product is the cheapest available product. If you haven't already, you can mitigate your risk by selling Darkmoon Cards and Mysterious Fortune Cards.
Secondly, we are at the end of an expansion, which is a notoriously bad time for making money. Trade goods are in very low demand at this point in the expansion cycle, because everything is either on farm or not being run. Prices are depressed further because many sellers have excessive supply that they are trying to move before Mists launches.
Hum... How do you know the person who added the glyph and undercutted you by 1 copper is using an addon ? While I will agree that many people use addons for the AH, not everyone does...
If you do not wish to use and addon for the AH, that is YOUR choice... But don't go blaming others for using them when these addons are common tools. Next thing you will be complaining about people using addons in dungeons and raids...
These addons are there for the people to use IF THEY WISH... As for the AH, I use and addon to post, I do get undercut on a regular basis but I don't go crying on the forums or to Blizzard about it... After all, the AH is an AUCTION HOUSE... Buyers want to pay the lowest price possible. You get undercut ? Cancel your auction and repost lower... That is the name of the game... Period.
PS: You had 3 glyphs for sale and complain ? I sometimes have 200-300 glyphs for sale depending on the time of week... I cancel my undercut auctions and re-post them... but I don't cry about it...
If you do not wish to use and addon for the AH, that is YOUR choice... But don't go blaming others for using them when these addons are common tools. Next thing you will be complaining about people using addons in dungeons and raids...
These addons are there for the people to use IF THEY WISH... As for the AH, I use and addon to post, I do get undercut on a regular basis but I don't go crying on the forums or to Blizzard about it... After all, the AH is an AUCTION HOUSE... Buyers want to pay the lowest price possible. You get undercut ? Cancel your auction and repost lower... That is the name of the game... Period.
PS: You had 3 glyphs for sale and complain ? I sometimes have 200-300 glyphs for sale depending on the time of week... I cancel my undercut auctions and re-post them... but I don't cry about it...
Daily quests give something like 15-18 gold each. You can do 25 per day. Assuming the low end of 15 gold, you can make 375 gold per day from daily quests.
While doing these daily quests, you'll also gather embersilk cloth. You can sell these without constantly being undercut simply because it's harder to farm and tailoring requires more of it.
But there are a lot of other professions that aren't nearly as bad as inscription for undercutting.
The problem is, once I buy a glyph, I will never need that glyph again unless I make an alt of the same class. The list of potential buyers for glyphs is extraordinarily small. So, after looking at your character profile, I have to make 2 suggestions.
1) Stop trying to worry so much about making such a profit at level 30.
2) If you need to make money, drop inscription. Pick up skinning or mining.
3) Get to level 85. There probably about 6-7k of gold to be made between here and level 85, if not more.
4) When you get to level 85, pick Alchemy rather than Inscription. Alchemy can make potions, flasks, and elixirs which are consumed in large quantities and can sell for pretty good prices.
While doing these daily quests, you'll also gather embersilk cloth. You can sell these without constantly being undercut simply because it's harder to farm and tailoring requires more of it.
But there are a lot of other professions that aren't nearly as bad as inscription for undercutting.
The problem is, once I buy a glyph, I will never need that glyph again unless I make an alt of the same class. The list of potential buyers for glyphs is extraordinarily small. So, after looking at your character profile, I have to make 2 suggestions.
1) Stop trying to worry so much about making such a profit at level 30.
2) If you need to make money, drop inscription. Pick up skinning or mining.
3) Get to level 85. There probably about 6-7k of gold to be made between here and level 85, if not more.
4) When you get to level 85, pick Alchemy rather than Inscription. Alchemy can make potions, flasks, and elixirs which are consumed in large quantities and can sell for pretty good prices.
I too have notice a significant increase in AH warfare. However, if the addon does not violate the terms of service, then no issue.
My concern, and maybe the addon experts on this forum can answer this, can Auctioneer/TSM allow you to relist auctions while your are AFK? That to me seems innappropriate, possibly botting.
I watch a level 2 toon post 16-18 hours a day. I don't like it, so for my main auctions, I have found his bottom and make sure he makes the minimum profit and, occassionally, sells below cost. Hopefully he'll determine that market is not worth it and go away. I've gone to selling the mats as I know this person can't be farming mats and must be buying them on the AH. My profit margins are higher than his as I've made sure he gets little profit margin on the enchanting scrolls and I can get the mats much much cheaper than they sell for (smarter, not harder).
The downside, to the AH poster, is that the person can't play on that account while his auction house dummy constantly undercuts. I expect that when MoP drops, this behavior will be reduced as these people will want to play the game with their accounts rather than camp the AH. I had not noticed this behavior so much in the enchanting market for the first year or so of Cata, only within the last couple months. So I expect when MoP drops, for this behavior to once again decline.
Whats funny is when there are two AH campers, constantly undercutting each other by a copper. Funny to watch sometimes the constant undercutting.
My concern, and maybe the addon experts on this forum can answer this, can Auctioneer/TSM allow you to relist auctions while your are AFK? That to me seems innappropriate, possibly botting.
I watch a level 2 toon post 16-18 hours a day. I don't like it, so for my main auctions, I have found his bottom and make sure he makes the minimum profit and, occassionally, sells below cost. Hopefully he'll determine that market is not worth it and go away. I've gone to selling the mats as I know this person can't be farming mats and must be buying them on the AH. My profit margins are higher than his as I've made sure he gets little profit margin on the enchanting scrolls and I can get the mats much much cheaper than they sell for (smarter, not harder).
The downside, to the AH poster, is that the person can't play on that account while his auction house dummy constantly undercuts. I expect that when MoP drops, this behavior will be reduced as these people will want to play the game with their accounts rather than camp the AH. I had not noticed this behavior so much in the enchanting market for the first year or so of Cata, only within the last couple months. So I expect when MoP drops, for this behavior to once again decline.
Whats funny is when there are two AH campers, constantly undercutting each other by a copper. Funny to watch sometimes the constant undercutting.
The downside, to the AH poster, is that the person can't play on that account while his auction house dummy constantly undercuts. I expect that when MoP drops, this behavior will be reduced as these people will want to play the game with their accounts rather than camp the AH. I had not noticed this behavior so much in the enchanting market for the first year or so of Cata, only within the last couple months. So I expect when MoP drops, for this behavior to once again decline.
To the people that camp the AH, that is playing the game. It is the reason they are subscribed, and a new expansion means only a more active AH and more profits. They will level their characters to the bare minimum necessary to progress their professions, and then park themselves in front of the nearest AH. That is the aspect of the game they enjoy, and that is what they pay to do.
The downside, to the AH poster, is that the person can't play on that account while his auction house dummy constantly undercuts. I expect that when MoP drops, this behavior will be reduced as these people will want to play the game with their accounts rather than camp the AH. I had not noticed this behavior so much in the enchanting market for the first year or so of Cata, only within the last couple months. So I expect when MoP drops, for this behavior to once again decline.
To the people that camp the AH, that is playing the game. It is the reason they are subscribed, and a new expansion means only a more active AH and more profits. They will level their characters to the bare minimum necessary to progress their professions, and then park themselves in front of the nearest AH. That is the aspect of the game they enjoy, and that is what they pay to do.
I don't have a problem with this except that it impedes on everyone else's gameplay. The fact that you literally need to devote your entire game time to be competitive with the market is a little absurd.
I liked what TOR did in this respect. There was a sizable deposit required to post things (something like 10-15% of the amount you posted for) and you lost that deposit if you canceled your auction. It just wasn't viable to camp the AH all day but it still allowed for a competitive market.
I liked what TOR did in this respect. There was a sizable deposit required to post things (something like 10-15% of the amount you posted for) and you lost that deposit if you canceled your auction. It just wasn't viable to camp the AH all day but it still allowed for a competitive market.
Blizzard has this too. In fact, for most items, posting a 48 hour auction and not having it sell (or canceling the auction early) is typically right around the vendor price of the item. Post more then once without a sale, and you are likely losing gold.
Addons are free. If you can't beat them, join them.
You would rather buy gold (illegal) than use addons (completely legal)? Now I see why your post was reported.
You would rather buy gold (illegal) than use addons (completely legal)? Now I see why your post was reported.
You would rather buy gold (illegal) than use addons (completely legal)? Now I see why your post was reported.
Oh, that's what he meant by that line?
I just assumed he meant 'gold sellers' use auction house addons. Which is profoundly silly. Some of us are just 'gold collectors'. =D
While the OP's anger is misplaced on the addons (rather than the futility of trying to compete with people who do nothing but stand at the AH all day, which the current AH structure heavily favours), they probably could use some attention.
To draw a RL parallel, when people started to trade using heavily automated microtransactions on the stock exchange, they created a situation where a run on a stock could trash it in seconds rather than hours, which used to be the case simply because actual people involved in the process took longer to react and perform the steps involved. The stock exchange had to add rules involving trading frequencies and automatic cutoffs if something happened too fast.
Some kind of throttling on AH scan requests would at least encourage more manual curation and disincentivise brute force automation of entire markets (eg every item with 'glyph' in the name). While also reducing server load etc.
Quite a difference between paying a % of vendor price vs a % of listing price. The markets with the biggest AH issues are invariably the ones where the items have negligible vendor price (ie glyphs and enchanting mats).
I think WoW originally used vendor price as the reference point for the deposit fee simply because it was exact whereas with the Bid/Buyout system there is no well-defined listing price (unless you specify both and they are the equal). Personally I always do list everything with Bid = Buyout, as it is weak strategy not to (the only reasons for having Bid < Buyout is if you don't know what something is worth, or you are trying to snipe the first listing without actually lowering your price, both of which are bad plays). I would not mourn the removal of it. Just have one listing price set, all trades are buyout, and then you can make the deposit based on listing price rather than vendor. Would solve a ton of problems. But, it's too big a change and I don't expect it to ever happen.
To draw a RL parallel, when people started to trade using heavily automated microtransactions on the stock exchange, they created a situation where a run on a stock could trash it in seconds rather than hours, which used to be the case simply because actual people involved in the process took longer to react and perform the steps involved. The stock exchange had to add rules involving trading frequencies and automatic cutoffs if something happened too fast.
Some kind of throttling on AH scan requests would at least encourage more manual curation and disincentivise brute force automation of entire markets (eg every item with 'glyph' in the name). While also reducing server load etc.
Blizzard has this too. In fact, for most items, posting a 48 hour auction and not having it sell (or canceling the auction early) is typically right around the vendor price of the item. Post more then once without a sale, and you are likely losing gold.
Quite a difference between paying a % of vendor price vs a % of listing price. The markets with the biggest AH issues are invariably the ones where the items have negligible vendor price (ie glyphs and enchanting mats).
I think WoW originally used vendor price as the reference point for the deposit fee simply because it was exact whereas with the Bid/Buyout system there is no well-defined listing price (unless you specify both and they are the equal). Personally I always do list everything with Bid = Buyout, as it is weak strategy not to (the only reasons for having Bid < Buyout is if you don't know what something is worth, or you are trying to snipe the first listing without actually lowering your price, both of which are bad plays). I would not mourn the removal of it. Just have one listing price set, all trades are buyout, and then you can make the deposit based on listing price rather than vendor. Would solve a ton of problems. But, it's too big a change and I don't expect it to ever happen.
I expect that when MoP drops, this behavior will be reduced as these people will want to play the game with their accounts rather than camp the AH.
This is wrong for 2 reasons.
First, it assumes the real AH barons only have one account, which is simply wrong in many cases.
Second, it ignores just how much profit there is to be made at the start of a new expansion.
I know some AH barons with over 3 million gold, and the last thing they'll be doing when pandaland hits is grinding levels.
Dear Developers, Make the Auction House impenetrable to ADDONS. It is an unfair advantage to anyone else that has profession, has signed up to play your game, and does not have that ADDON to counter the near automatic price reduction process. ...
Aren't the addons free? Why not just use it yourself if they irritate you?
Also, what would OP do if he knew outside websites like The Undermine Journal could, with a paid subscription, alert players via email about events on the Auction House?
He'd probably flip out.. so no one tell him.
He'd probably flip out.. so no one tell him.
My concern, and maybe the addon experts on this forum can answer this, can Auctioneer/TSM allow you to relist auctions while your are AFK? That to me seems innappropriate, possibly botting.
No, they don't. You have to manually click a button (or spin a mouse wheel) to post, cancel, or move to the mailbox, even with an addon.
But....
There are bots out there that can do those things for you. In effect, they click the mouse for you. People use these bots to control the auction house addons. This is a bannable offense, but there are still a lot of bots out there.
Frankly, I know how to use the addons and make lots of cash. However, I don't enjoy it. I'd rather just throw up my stuff on the auction house and forget about it while I go questing or whatever. However, unless I stand around relisting all day, I'm not going to sell much. That's tedious and I don't like it.
Charging 25% of the listing price to cancel an auction would help somewhat. However, in the glyph market, you'd still get people undercutting a lot. They'd make 40 of each glyph and post a fresh one each time they got undercut. They just wouldn't cancel.
My concern, and maybe the addon experts on this forum can answer this, can Auctioneer/TSM allow you to relist auctions while your are AFK? That to me seems innappropriate, possibly botting.
Auction addons cannot post while you are actually AFK. However you can play with the game basically in minimal mode and in a window while you're doing something else, run over to the AH and run your 'undercut everything' routine every so often. I do this occasionally when I'm working on something mindless, but I don't post every 5 minutes. That's more likely either a botter or just somebody getting paid $0.50 an hour to do that on behalf of someone else.
And yeah, plenty of AH people have two accounts (it helps move stuff from faction to faction).
Addons are available to everyone. If you choose not to use them because you like making things harder for yourself, that's your decision. The glyphs market is very cut-throat on almost every server. Good luck trying to make money there.
No, they don't. You have to manually click a button (or spin a mouse wheel) to post, cancel, or move to the mailbox, even with an addon.
Auction addons cannot post while you are actually AFK.
Thanks Kathuca and Storella, thats what I was looking for. If a person is willing to invest the time, then they deserve the rewards, even if it is minimal effort, it is still effort. Nearly impossible to prove whether they are botting or not. Some people just play a lot.
Also, AH cut is miniscule for enchants and enchanting supplies. Generally 1-3 silver, the default amount for items that cannot be vendored. This encourages undercutting as there reallly is no penalty for cancelling and relisting. I generally just try to make money in enchants that are harder to come by (rare drops, reputation formula, etc.). It is generally low volume, but much higher margin. I don't have time to list and relist. Hate doing AH anyways, but need the gold to fund my raiding and collecting habit.
In any case, I have noticed a lot more repetition type posting activity in my markets which did not exist a month or two ago. Wondering why it has increased lately, these addons are not new.
Addons are available to everyone. If you choose not to use them because you like making things harder for yourself, that's your decision. The glyphs market is very cut-throat on almost every server. Good luck trying to make money there.
I am assuming since he's so new to glyph selling that he's trying to sell glyphs he learned from the vendor, which everyone and their mother knows, so gl to him on that.
And also, there are other parts of the game where addons are basically required, like any decent pvp or raiding guild. If he refuses to install any addons, he's not gonna have a lot of fun in this game.
I can only imagine the addons that will be built around the casual stuff, like pet battles in pandaland
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